The Corruption of The Catholic Church


The Corruption of The Catholic Church

Catholics are big on making up their own rules.  They justify it by their tradition and the pope and even the bishops making up rules that Catholics are supposed to live by or they are supposedly committing a mortal sin.

Here is what the Bible says about that:

You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the comandments of the Lord your God which I command you.  Deut 4:3

 

Whatever I command you be careful to observ it.  You shall not add to it or take away from it.  Deut 12:32

 

Every word of God is pure;  He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.  Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.  Proverbs 30:6

 

So for the  sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.  You hypocrites!  Well did Isiah prophesy of you when he said:  This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrine, the commandments of men..  Math 15:6-9

 

I don’t understand how you can read these scriptures and support man-made doctrine and tradition in place of the bible or contradicting the Bible, can you?

Catholics teach kids from the time that they are little to pray the rosary.  Here is what Jesus said about that:

When you pray, do not pray as the heathen do in vain repetitions for they think that they will be heard for their much speaking.  Math 6:7

 

The rosary is EXACTLY vain repetitions saying the same prayer over and over in a mantra.  Jesus strictly forbid it and yet when I confront catholics over this they explain to me why Jesus is wrong.

Catholics teach their people to pray to Mary and the saints and Jesus said:

“I am the way, the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father except through me”.   John 14:6

How can you read that scripture and excuse praying to Mary?  She was nothing more than a faithful servant and had little to do with Jesus ministry, but it is VERY CLEAR, that Jesus said that there is but one way to the Father and it is not through Mary or the saints.  Do you see the mounting body of evidence in the bible completely contradicting catholic doctrine?

More to follow in future posts and as always, I welcome your comments, catholic or otherwise.

Blessings on you and yours

John Wilder

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Posted on May 4, 2011, in Philosophy, Politics, Uncategorized and tagged . Bookmark the permalink. 43 Comments.

  1. Hey John, good start! But let me ask you a few questions.
    When did Christians become beholden to the Old Covenant? Do you eat pork and shellfish? Stone women for adultery? If not, why not?
    You don’t have anything against the gospels, do you? Every part of the rosary is the Gospel.
    You don’t ask other people to pray for you, do you? Asking Mary to pray for us is the same thing. Asking saints to pray for us is the same thing.

  2. Hey David
    We are in the new covenant and are released from the law as it pertains to ceremonial law. This can be illustrated in the Gospel of Mathew 15:1-3 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jersualem and said, “Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. He answered them, “And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradtion”? So much for your tradition and magesterium.

    You are not answering the biblical quotes that I have published. You are again insisting on answering on your own intellect. Jesus said directly not to pray in vain repetitions as quoted in the gospels and not to use tradition to form man made laws. Catholocism is basically warmed over Judaisism with Christ added but then you ignore direct commands of Christ.

    I pray directly to Jesus to intervene for me, I don’t ask people to pray for me. I take Christ’s commands very seriously.

    John

  3. Hey David, I am still waiting on you to produce written evidence that getting a blow job from a man’s wife is a mortal sin if he ejaculates in her mouth.
    John

  4. Part 1, exactly! So why all the OT rhetoric? Our rules come from the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.
    And this answer does answer all those Old Testament Bible quotes you spouted off.
    Part 2 Very true. But how is praying the gospels “Vain repetition”? Also, does Psalm 136 qualify for ‘vain repetition’? Jesus taught us the Lord’s prayer, and the Hail Mary is a direct scriptural quote. So is the Glory Be. When we pray the Hail Mary we’re supposed to be thinking about the incidents in Jesus’ life depicted in the gospels.

    Part 3, you missed the question about intercessory prayer.

    I wonder what they taught you in Catechism…

  5. I answered your question already, John.

  6. Sorry, my bad, you didn’t. Good, so at least you follow your own counsel. But Revelation shows the value of intercessory prayer, and Maccabees, which you don’t know about, shows the tradition of praying for the dead, again intercessory prayer. So we pray to the mother of our Lord, just as the man went to Bathsheba to get Solomon to do something for him, because he knew the King would not deny his mother.

    So you don’t follow everything in the Bible, then, do you?

  7. Hi John,

    I am not a catholic. I, in fact, don’t claim a denomination. I am simply a devoted Christian. I have many Catholic friends and so I am hurt for them when I read your article. I have always had trouble with organized churches. I have been burned in so many. Once, I went to a Born Again church, alone and friendless in a dire time in my life, and the ‘church ladies’ were whispering with heads together. When I came near, the whispering stopped awkwardly. But too late. I had heard them saying that I was not a ‘real’ Christian because I didn’t talk in ‘tongues’. I was devestated to be fodder for their gossip! I had done nothing to them. That was the last church I stepped into for a long time. My Catholic friend brought me to her church one day, many days later. During my travels in Europe, I visited many beautiful cathedrals. I was very warmed by these visits. I have come, through my friend, to understand their way of worshipping God, and I guarantee you, they don’t ‘pray’ to Mary or the saints- not as we know the word ‘pray’. Haven’t you ever caught yourself talking to your deceased mother or father? Have you never felt that even though they are dead, they still look out for you? It is in this way that they ‘talk’ to people in Heaven. Personally, I don’t have a big problem with this. Further, the Catholic service is very repetitive. A lot of ritual. It is not based in meaningless nothings that tire our Father. It is simply to comfort the people when their worlds seem so chaotic. I absolutely love the part where everyone turns to one another, hugs or shakes hands, and says, “Peace be with you”. No Protestant member of any denomination so much as touched me in the troubled years of my youth- and I went to a lot of them. It was nice to have another human (stranger though they may be) smile into my eyes and shake my hands and say something so nice. It just was.

    John, a house divided will not stand. While it is clear that you strongly disagree with certain aspects of the Catholic practice, you have to realize that they are Christians too. We Christains need to stick together. I believe we are entering the end days. Rather than pull each other apart over trifles, we need to link arms and look outward to our true enemies: those motivated by evil intentions and desires.

    Just a thought.

    Susan

  8. Question: John, is this part of your sex therapy or was it sarcasm? is this a serious post? I can’t help but find it offensive. Perhaps I am not a good fit? Call me a prude, but I don’t like this kind of talk. Pls. let me know. susan

  9. 🙂
    I can not help , but add my 2 cents…
    …before I say anything else let me be clear!!!
    (wow!!! I sound like obama!!!)
    🙂
    …anyway…
    I am Polish Lutheran…
    grew up with 98% of Catholic neighbors, friends, schoolmates etc….
    was also married to my late husband…a Catholic, educated in Catholic kindergarden through University of Notre Dame….

    He LOVED!!!!!!!!
    going to my (Lutheran) church…
    for the simplicity in service and message…
    over the years we were together he never!!!!!
    wanted to go to “his ” church…
    always told me:
    there is too much hoopla …
    “a show” he does not care to attend….

    my humble view:
    ????
    every person living and practicing the common everyday life is WORTH TO BE PRAISED!!!!!!
    ….
    …and NO PRIEST!!!!!!…does have the right to tell me :
    YOU ARE A SINNER!!!!
    ………….

  10. Susan
    I have no problem with catholics in the laity. What I have a problemw with is the leadership. Surely you must recognize the authority of the bible to rule our faith. My problem is that the leadership of the catholic church makes up their own rules in violation of the scriptures.

    It is sort of like you conversion from being a liberal to being a conservative. You talked about facts and logic over feelings. This is precisely what I am doing here and now you come at me with emotion.

    I am trying to educate people here in what the bible says. Jesus gave some very explicit commands tht the catholic clergy just blow off. He was very clear in not relying on tradition and man made rules but to follow the bible. He was very explicit in not praying in vain repetitions.

    If you find this offensive, then I must question your facts and logic approach. I am not preaching hate speech here but biblically correcting false doctrine.

    As one of the thousands of children who were sexually abused by a catholic priest, I find that the bishops are much more concerned about protecting the cahtolic church than the children that they have harmed. It is statutory rape and all the bishops want to do is sweep it under the carpet and send the priests to another parish where the abuse continues.

    Blessings on you and yours
    John Wilder

  11. David, you answered the question in your own wisdom you have not answered the question as to where is it written that blow jobs to completion is a mortal sin.
    John

  12. Joanna,
    Your comments are always welcomed.
    John Wilder

  13. David, the 10 commandments are in the Old Testament. We are only released from the ceremonial law aspects. We are also forbidden in the old testament from incest, homosexuality and sex with animals. Not all of those things are enumerated in the NT so is it your claim that we are now free to practice this abomination?

    John

  14. John, why do you believe that everything must be explicitly spelled out? Does it say anywhere in the Bible that you shouldn’t drive around waving your middle finger at people while you cut them off on the freeway? And yet, it is wrong. Jesus encompassed the old law this way:”The greatest commandment is this: You should love the Lord,your God, with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, all your strength. The second greatest commandment is this: That you should love your neighbor as yourself.” He then goes on to define what it means to love your neighbor.
    I told you that it’s not in the bible explicitly about handjobs, masturbation or blowjobs. But they are all morally wrong, and I gave you written proof. You chose not to accept that proof. But proof it is, nonetheless.
    I also addressed your diatribe on vain repetition, you didn’t react.
    For the record, the Bible says what it says, but Catholics know the Bible is not the whole story. Christianity was, at it’s roots, a religion of the spoken word. Eventually people felt the need to write it down. And John told us that all the books in the world could not hold what Jesus did while he was here.

  15. John, I’m not making light of what was done to you, but why do you seem to lump all priests and all bishops together. The percentage of priests who were abusers is very small. The bishops were told that rehab and relocation would solve the problem, and it was the common wisdom of the day. Some did it over and over and over, because they received bad advice about how to deal with those priests. Also, the incidences of priests who were not rehabilitated from the psychologists is a small subset of those who abused in the first place. We know now that child molesters are not by and large rehabitable. The best a single offense child molester should get is life in a monastery, which is worse by far than life in a prison, other than all the convicts who want your services.

  16. John, can you give me a single scripture passage where Jesus says we should follow the Bible? I’d love to see that, considering none of it was written until well after his death. In fact, we have writings that are Christian and not scriptural from before the written gospels and letters.

  17. You are right, there are situations where you need to take biblical principles to derive a moral meaning such as abortion.

    However it is a huge leap to take moral issues about sex where God clearly spelled out in VERY EXPLICIT terms what is and is not sexual sin and then you add your overlay to it because you deem it not complete. I refuse to believe that. If God gave every possible family combination that could be considered incest and forbid sex between men and animals as well as women and animals, I have to beleive that this is a complete list because certainly masturbation is not nearly as bad. God even gave instructions that sex with animals was a death penalty offense. The sin of Onan was from the Old Testament and you want to use that passage to justify the Catholic stance against masturbation. You are not being consistent or even intellectually honest. It is part of the overalll and overreaching of catholic hierarchy of dismissing biblical commands and superimposing more stringent commands than God stated.
    Masturbation hurts no one and a wife giving a husband a blow to completion hurts no one. It is loving yourself and loving your partner. I have written a post where giving your partner oral sex is one of the ultimate sexual pleasures.

    My problem is that catholics take the written word which is explicitly spelled out and then make a case where Jesus himself is wrong such as the praying in vain repetitions and just toss aside direct commands.

    John

  18. You gave me a bishops letter mentioning masturbation. It did not mention oral sex as I recall. I asked for you to show me written proof from the church claiming that oral sex is a sin. You said read Humana Vitae. I said that I had no desire to read the whole thing but if it is iindeed mentioned in there, then by all means cut and paste it here to give me proof that this is not just your interpretation. I have given scripture to back my interpretation.
    John Wilder

  19. Hi John,
    I don’t find your views about the Catholic church offensive, nor do I think it is hate speech. I don’t think I was expressing emotion- I was coming at the argument from a completely different perspective- that’s all. I’m very sorry for what happened to you. It must be very hard to heal from something like that. Of course you have bitter feelings. I agree with you wholeheartedly concerning this aspect of the Catholic church. These priests are not above the law and it is an abomination that the Church leadership protects these people. What I am saying is only this: don’t throw out the baby out with the bathwater! The reason I have had trouble joining any church (I am still not a member of any church) is the blatant hypocrisy I find in every one of them. But as I have aged, I have come to question my actions. Is it right to just stand on the sidelines and criticize every church for its human flaws? As every man embodies sin, of course every church will have sin. Every church will fail in some way or other. Would it not be better to join and actually help heal hypocrisy? I, personally, have come to miss Christian brotherhood. Being burned by many churches in my youth has led to decisions that have isolated me from the Christian fellowship. I get tired of making friends and then finding out they really hate the word, “God” or “Jesus”.

    My point is only this: there is great good in the Catholic church, regardless of the bad things they do. There is great good in most churches, regardless of the bad things they do. It is not from emotion that I say that we Christians must stand together to fight the greater evil in the world. It is not emotion that makes me say that it is better to forgive fellow church failures and seek unity against true satanism. It is not emotion that makes me say that the Catholic church helped me when no one else did.

    Much of what I say is exactly what Jesus said. The rest is simply my opinion based on personal experience.

    We all have choices in how we spend our energy- do we spend it by punishing those that hurt us in the past, or do we spend it in seeking to heal others as much as we can? We only have so much energy and so much time.

    Based on the articles and comments I have read from you, I can see that you are very intellectual and knowledgeable about the Bible. But anyone can use verses and scriptures to support almost any point of view. To a certain extent, it becomes an exercise in futility. Jesus also condemned the Jewish leadership for their literal interpretation of the Old Testament- when they claimed He was breaking the Sabbath by healing lepers that day. He chastised them for being so literal in their interpretations. They had missed the entire point in the Sabbath- God just wanted us all to take some time to relax, pray and heal. It was supposed to be something nice, not rigid and tyrannical.

    Jesus was all about LOVE. Forgiveness. Non-judgment. Details and technicalities were not what he cared about. It is from this angle that I address your article about the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church. No disrespect intended.

    Susan

  20. Hi Joanna,
    Your article just made me glad that there is something for everyone in the very diverse community of the Christian faith. To me, it is so important to not get caught up in in-fighting which only harms our ultimate goal: serving God. As a child of a career Army man, I moved constantly. We just went to whatever church as nearby- Lutheran as well. I learned that every service was slightly different and that there were pros and cons to each one. In the end, I chose simply to be called a Christian. In-fighting bothers me because it is a huge distraction and waste of energy. We have work to do in this world- let us do it together! Susan

  21. Hey Susan
    I am glad that you understand where I am coming from. I am not trying to fight but to educate people on important issues. Does the catholic church do good, of course. Do they do a lot of bad, absolutely. As to my experience, I have forgiven the priest. The church even today cares more about protecting the church than children. Jesus was very explicit in his commands about this sin, that it would be better if there was a millstone hung around his neck and tossed into the sea.

    The bible commands spiritual people to correct misinformation when it comes to the kingdom of God because Satan is the father of lies and seeks those that he can destroy.

    EVERY ex catholic who became a christian has the same feelings that I do, that the Catholic church lied to us and lead us astray. These things are important. It is my goal to lead honest people like you in a more scriptural path and a better understanding. I even desire to lead people like David who is very serious about his faith. I don’t at all doubt his faith, I am simply trying to show him where the leadership has mislead him as well.

    Blessings on you
    John

  22. John, you have a very short memory. I conceded that Onan didn’t apply to masturbation. I did not concede that masturbation is a sin. Any action which subverts the will of God is a sin. Sex has a purpose, and ejaculation ain’t it. Procreation and unity are inseparable. You are certainly free, as were Adam and Eve, to refuse to believe. The Catholic Church only proposes, they do not impose. I guess you’ll find out. But “masturbation hurts no one”?? You may not think so, but it certainly turns something that’s meant to be shared into something that’s selfish. Oral sex does have the ability to be a selfish act, too, when sex is supposed to be unitive. Whatever you’ve written, the truth is that sex is supposed to be unitive and procreative, and we see the two as inseparable. You see it differently, so be it.
    Your problem is no problem at all, when you look at the context of ‘vain repetition’. Matthew 6:5-6 deal with the prayer practices of the Jews themselves; Jesus derides these as hypocritical. He doesn’t condemn repetitive Jewish prayers, of which there were a countless number. For example, the book of Psalms is a collection of hymns and prayers repeatedly used in Jewish celebrations in which Jesus himself participated. The Passover, celebrated by Jesus before his Crucifixion, had fixed prayers that were repeated annually. Following the Last Supper, Jesus went to the Garden of Gethsemane and prayed the same prayer three times in a row (Matt. 26:39-44)–he engaged in repetitive prayer.

    In the next pair of verses Jesus warns against the prayer practices of the pagans, who held a magical view of prayer and whose repetitious prayers he does condemn. Verse 7 reads, in the King James Version, “[D]o not use vain repetitions [battalogeo] as the heathen do.” This is a misleading rendering. The Greek word battalogeo is better translated as “babbling,” and it is so translated in the New International Version. (The Revised Standard Version has “empty phrases.”) [Battalogeo, which is a very rare Greek word except in writings dependent on the New Testament, is perhaps connected with the Aramaic word battal (idle, useless). Battal is used in an Aramaic papyrus from Qumran with the meaning of “without effect.” The Sinaitic Syriac manuscript of Matthew renders this verse as “Do not be saying idle things.”] Jesus isn’t condemning mere repetition–something he himself engaged in, as did other good Jews–but the babbling of the pagans.

    What sort of babbling did the pagans practice? Look at 1 Kings 18:26-29, where the pagan prophets on Mount Carmel tried to invoke Baal all day long, repeatedly calling on his name and performing ritual dances: “[They] called on the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, Oh Baal, answer us!’ But there was no voice, no one answered. And they leaped about the altar which they had made. . . . And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out of them. And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the [evening] oblation, but there was no voice, no one answered, no one heeded.” Once the pagan prophets had given up, Elijah came forward and called on the God of Israel, and immediately his prayer was answered.

    The prayers of the pagan prophets were “vain” because, after spending the entire day frantically calling upon him, Baal never responded. He wasn’t a real god, unlike the God of Israel, who always answers sincere prayer. Jesus’ point in Matthew 6:7 is that we don’t need to spend all day leaping over altars, cutting ourselves, and raving to get our heavenly Father’s ear. He hears our prayers no matter what type of prayer is offered: lengthy or short, composed or extemporaneous, group or individual, repetitious or unique.

    Thus Jesus says in the next verse: “Therefore do not be like them [the pagans]. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask him” (Matt. 6:8). This doesn’t mean that, since God already knows our needs, we don’t have to pray at all. As Jesus taught in the parable of the persistent widow (Luke 18:1-8), we are to be tenacious in prayer, freely and repeatedly (repetitiously) bringing our petition before the seat of grace.

    Paul says we are to “pray without ceasing” (1 Thess. 5:17), not “pray reservedly lest we repeat ourselves” (as is inevitable in ceaseless prayer). One of the benefits of the rosary is that it leads naturally to the ceaseless prayer and meditation which Scripture enjoins upon us.

    If there should be any lingering doubt that God doesn’t look askance on repetition in prayer, note that in Revelation 4:8-11 we find the heavenly host engaging in repetitive prayer (“Holy, holy, holy Lord God Almighty”), said “day and night” before the throne of the Almighty, followed by repetitious antiphons from the elders.

  23. Regardless of your desire to read the document(s) I provided you, they are there and constitute the proof you asked for. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him bathe in it. Show me in scripture where it says that masturbation and oral sex are permissible.

  24. David
    We will have to agree to disagree. I did not claim or misunderstand that you felt like masturbation is a sin.

    I have now repeatedly asked you to provide written proof that oral sex is a sin according to the catholic church. You still have not provided that but persist in giving me your opinion.

    John

  25. The bishops are required to turn over the priests to the police. They stil refuse to that and apparently that is fine with you, but it is definitely not fine with me.
    John

  26. John,
    Who or how was “the faith” and the rules of that faith determined when there was no Bible canon? (The Catholic Church decided it based on apostolic teaching, that’s how and who) We recognize the scriptures just fine, we just know that’s not all there is to it. Name a rule of the Catholic Church which violates scripture. Better yet, write a whole post.
    You don’t understand the context of what Jesus said of ‘traditions of men’. St. Paul very clearly tells Timothy to keep to the traditions he was taught. Contradiction? No, except in protestant minds.
    Proper interpretation and proper authority to interpret scripture is necessary to understand what the Bible really says. What John thinks it means 2000 years after it was written has little to no bearing.
    I’ve answered your charge about priests and bishops. But consider this. Jesus chose twelve apostles. How many of them were sinless? How many of them went hiding after the crucifixion? The apostles were sinners, and as Hebrews says, every man is a sinner. People throughout the ages have done things in the name of Jesus that he wouldn’t approve of. You were one of those victims. The handling of the abuse was done in accordance with what was professionally thought of to be the right way, right from the beginning. That we know it was wrong, now is 20-20 hindsight.

  27. Well how about Paul answering about the Judaizers who were forcing converts to become circumsized as adults. Paul said that it was preventing new converts because of the extremely painful procedure to become circusized as an adult.

  28. Susan,
    Regarding joining a church, can I suggest something? Don’t hesitate to join because of the hypocracy of people, every church on earth has hypocrites. Join because you can see Jesus in that church. Catholics literally have Jesus residing in every Catholic Church, which is why I know it is the only church to be part of. Yes, there are jerks there-possibly murderers, alcoholics, adulterers, child molesters, people who won’t say hello to you, they wave the finger at you as they cut you off in the parking lot after mass, and so on. But when you go to mass, and you know that Jesus is really there…WOW! How do we know he’s there? He said so, in the gospels.

  29. How about it? It was decided at the first council of Jerusalem, read Acts 15, that circumcision was not necessary to become a Christian. Those that insisted were called ‘heretics’. And the people were told the truth-they didn’t need circumcision. This is one of the first instances where the Catholic Church said that Christians were not beholden to Judaic law (Old Covenant). It wasn’t about pain, either. Can you show me where he said it’s too painful and preventing converts? Peter and the apostles debated that and decided.

  30. Hey David
    I read the Humane Vitae.

    Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means. (16)

    I have pasted an exceprt in here for illustration. By what he wrote then the rythm method is also prohibited. After all you are trying to prevent pregnancy by abstaining, correct?
    JOhn

  31. Actually, yes, the ‘rhythm method’ is prohibited, if you’re referring to ‘coitus interruptus’. If you’re talking about using the woman’s fertility cycle to determine when it’s probably ok to have sex without danger of conception, no, that’s not prohibited, as long as you’re open to the possibility that you might be wrong, and a baby is conceived. The only real effective form of acceptible birth control is abstinence.

  32. Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means. (16)

    David, the message is very clear in Humana Vitae, that any method BEFORE intended to prevent pregnancy is excluded. The rythm method, (and I understand what it is not coitus interruptus but not engaging in sex to prevent conception) is prohibited. You are now explaining away why the pope is wrong as well as Jesus.

    We are agreed that it is the intent that makes sin.
    John

  33. You don’t know what you’re talking about John. Any sex that is not open to the possibility of conception is sinful. I’m not explaining away anything any pope has said, and I’m not contradicting Scripture. If I am, show me where, or shut up.

  34. Guys! Aren’t you getting a little tied up in this? Why are you both so concerned what the other thinks? You will never agree. I suggest you both move on to other topics. Just a thought. Susan

  35. Hey Susan
    I am just explaining how the catholic church contradicts biblical teaching and David is bound and determined that I am wrong on every point. I am simply answering him. It is my rant and I have said that I will answer all comments including David’s.

    Blessings
    John

  36. David the pope said ANY ACTION BEFORE sex that is intended to prevent pregnancy is prohibited. To abstain from sex during your wife’s fertile period is to prevent conception and therefore is prohibited according to Hamana Vitae. You made me read the thing and now you want to argue against that as well as the bible. You yourself said that intent is what creates sin and your intent is clearly to avoid impregnating your wife by abstaining from sex which is before as the pope stated.

    John

  37. Right. Any action. In what way is not having sexan action? An action would be putting a condom on, or taking a pill in order not to conceive.
    Of course, you have misread the document. Humanae Vitae says that a couple may morally space births if there are well-grounded reasons “arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances” (HV 16).

  38. Not having sex is an action. It is intended to not produce a pregnancy the same way as using a condom, birth control pills, diaphram or ejaculating in your wife’s mouth. It is thet INTENTION that creates sin remember. The decision is the action.
    JOhn Wilder

  39. I haven’t insulted you at all, John. I haven’t taken any action against you. Your ideas are what I’m talking about.
    The sin of ommission is not what you think it is. Your interpretation of it does not matter. What it is, is if you see a sin being committed or know a sin is about to be committed, and you do nothing to stop it.
    Not having sex is not a sin, except to you and some minority of people out there.
    To your ideas, I think they smell like the south bound end of a north bound donkey. It is not a sin to live married and chaste. Our example? Mary, the EVER VIRGIN mother of God.
    The sin is doing something against it’s intended results. So using a knife to stab someone is usually a sin. Using it to cut a banana is not.

    But go on believing that not having sex with your wife is a sin and masturbation is not…I’ve done what I can to show you different.

  40. Yes you did, you called me stupid. I find it very insulting. Mary the ever virgin. Perhaps you need to read the NT where they talked about Jesus’s brothers. She was only a virgin in Christ’s conception.
    John wilder

  41. I didn’t call you stupid, but if you feel that way, I’m sorry. Regarding Mary, why not start another thread, because that’s very off topic. But for 1500 years the Church knew that she was a consecrated virgin at her betrothal. It’s ok to say Jesus had brothers, just as if I were to call you a brother Christian. But to say Mary had other children, you’d be wrong. If Mary had other children, why did Jesus put her in John’s care when he was on the cross?

  42. “When you pray, do not pray as the heathen do in vain repetitions for they think that they will be heard for their much speaking.”

    It saddens me that you have asked Catholics to defend the Rosary “against” this passage and that they have failed so woefully.

    The Rosary is a internal meditation more than an outward prayer. With each part of the Rosary, the important part is the mystery being meditated upon (e.g., The Annunciation, the Nativity, The Wedding Feast at Cana, etc.). The purpose of the spoken prayers is to prevent our minds from wandering while simultaneously offering spoken prayer to God along with the prayers of our minds and hearts. Thus, the very nature of the Rosary has nothing to do with “thinking we will be heard for our much speaking” – quite the opposite. The repetition is necessary to aid the meditation: if we attempted to make up our own spoken prayer as we meditated, we would only be able to focus on one or the other. If we left the spoken prayer out altogether, not only would it be easier to lose focus, but we would be unable to meditate with a group in unity. The repetition, rather than serving as the focal point, simply serves as a tool to aid meditation.

    In regards to praying “to” Mary and the saints: Catholics ask for intercession, which is quite different from praying “to” someone (although we often use the preposition incorrectly). We pray in unison with those already with God; we ask that they pray to Him along with us. It’s exactly the same as asking a friend to keep you in their prayers… except that the friend is already perfect and enjoying the presence of God.

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